Moveon’s ‘Defend the American Dream’ Rally Fizzles in the Rain

by lewwaters

The first ever event that I can recall held in Vancouver and sponsored by was held this evening at Fort Vancouver Way and Mill Plain Boulevard, in front of the Fort Vancouver Library at about 5:30. Given some of the vitriolic rallies in other areas of the country, I went down, camera in hand to witness how they acted.

I am very pleased to say that Vancouver did not display a violent or vitriolic outburst that has been seen in other areas. In fact, there really wasn’t much to see at all, other than the 35 or so people basically sign waving, some with homemade signs and some with more professionally made looking signs.

Although relatively peaceful, it seemed to lack any organization. People just seemed to appear from their cars, some wearing their “uniform of the day,” dirty looking work clothes with yellow safety vests and hard hats.

There were no speakers, no chanting of the commonly heard chants we’ve heard in other cities and not even a bullhorn. I also noticed the distinct lack of a single American Flag and since Tea Parties are accused of only being “White People,” not one single Black Person was present. Some moderate horn honking was noticed, but not as much as one would expect given the heavy traffic at that time of the day if they have the support claimed.

As I always do, I wore my Viet Nam Veteran cap and unlike at every single Tea Party event I’ve attended, not one person held out their hand to say “thank you for serving.” At Tea Parties, usually a dozen people will thank any Veteran they identify.

It was a cold, wet, windy day today and perhaps that kept more people from coming out. I know it wreaked havoc with me trying to capture video. Trying to hold the umbrella and camera in one hand and bracing against the wind makes for some pretty jumpy video.

I noticed too, as I crossed Mill Plain to capture photos and video of the main crowd in front of the library, that once I was on the other side and took a couple photos of the signs, I turned around to tape the main body of the rally and every single one had left the corner and was heading for coffee across the street, leaving the corner completely empty.

As can be seen in the photos below, some of the signs make little sense for our area and seem to support a call to oust Wisconsin governor Scott Walker. Others just made no sense at all, spouting the usual anti-war, anti-corporate stuff widely seen, while ignoring that the legislation Wisconsin just passed affects Public Unions that are draining the struggling middle class of tax dollars, not Private Unions that remain subject to the disciplines of the marketplace.

Given that the announcement listed 41 professional left-wing sites, I’m really surprised more people didn’t attend and it wasn’t better organized. Vancouver’s “Defend the American Dream” didn’t even rate bused in protesters like other areas have received.

At least Vancouver’s event was actually peaceful, when I left.

More video of the rally HERE and HERE

63 Comments to “Moveon’s ‘Defend the American Dream’ Rally Fizzles in the Rain”

  1. I have stated since the beginning of this Wisconsin affair that Dems have chosen the WRONG BATTLE. They bet the farm and LOST it. Without Keith Olbermann, I can’t even watch MSNBC anymore – what a load of rubbish. Jon Stewart and Bill Maher are carrying the intellectual load of Liberal ideology – and they’re satirists! Lakoff is a joke. Krugman is unconvincing. Reich sounds like a cry-baby.

    There are real, logical, important issues that Liberals should OWN but they undermine themselves with self-righteous indignation, vague-Marxist-envy, and mindless group-think.

    Thank goodness the Conservatives are be-bopping around too – whoever gets their stuff together first, wins.

  2. I don’t know what you saw in Olbermann, but to each their own.

    Actually, it’s the establishment Republicans be-bopping around, kissing up to Liberals and trying to make peace with them in deals. Conservatives, what few there are, have been coming out strong.

    With all of the partisanship games that have been going on, both parties ignoring the country in their seeking partisan power, I’m ready to do away with the parties.

    As I tell people, I’m a conservative, not a Republican.

    Unless this country can regain balance, it grow further and further apart until it collapses. It might even already be too late.

  3. Olbermann was brilliant – ahhh, the good ol’ days…

    America’s fine – it’s just going through a re-adjustment. I think Conservatives are taking it harder because that’s their nature. And it’s frustrating to see time-bombs out there, like entitlements, energy, and deficits. But people rise to the occasion – when things get bad enough (which could be REALLY bad), we’ll fix them. Wisconsin is an excellent example of that.

    I’m reinvigorated every time I read “Discover” magazine (emerging science).

  4. As promised to MsJemJet, from a YouTube discussion, links to Politic=fact showing the claim of Gov. Walker inheriting a $137 Million surplus is false.

    Rachel Maddow says Wisconsin is on track to have a budget surplus this year

    For a bonus: The Political Economy of Government Employee Unions

    FDR 1937 Letter to the National Federation of Federal Employees

  5. Interesting site, Jess, especially quoting Noam Chomsky, who seems to dabble in anarchist, socialist and a little bit of Marxist views.

    While I admit to not being all that familar with this particular web site, I notice quickly some holes in their reasoning, number one being “Wisconsin had a $120 million surplus when Walker came into office.” As shown at Politifact in the link above, Rachel Maddow’s claim of that is totally false.

    Offering tax breaks to businesses to move to your state is a common practice of both parties. When those businesses do move, the bring those little things known as ‘jobs.’ Jobs that give paychecks and paychecks that send revenue to the state coffers.

    As for collective bargaining for public unions, again I refer you to the letter Franklin Delano Roosevelt wrote in 1937 where even he states they are incmopatible with government services. Additionally, I continue to be amazed that liberals do not complain over the Democrat congress and Jimmy Carter taking federal public union collective bargaining rights away during his presidency. That doesn’t seem to bother anyone, just that Scott Walker removed SOME of their collective bargaining.

    Didn’t you know they still retain collective bargaining for wages?

    Is the claim that ending collective bargaining wull cure the current ills? No, but rolling them back will help. Why is it they shouldn’t share a fair portion of the burden in paying for a portion of health insurance premiums and pensions on the same par as the private sector?

    What I find most laughable is, “LIE: Walker says he’s just helping the worker when he argues for elimination of the “dues check-off,” saying the workers would have more disposable income.

    TRUTH: Eliminating dues check-off would cripple unions, which would have to rely solely upon voluntary contributions.”

    Just a little sleight of hand, there. Going from “helping workers” to “crippling unions.” Are they fearful union members won’t pay dues on time? It appears so by saying they “would have to rely solely upon voluntary contributions.”

    Then again, the author is a “social activist,” so I guess it is to be expected.

    Before I retired, or should I say was pushed into early retirement due to the auto manufacturer bail out that closed 789 dealerships. I went 4 years without a pay raise as the economy contniued to worse. I paid $471 a month for health insurance premiums to cover my wife and I. I was with the same employer for 20 years when the franchise was yanked.

    So, please pardon me if I don’t have a whole lot of sympathy that some one is asked to pay 15% or so of their premiums and endure a scant 3% cut in wages while we continue spiralling downward in this economic depression.

    All that is sought is they carry their fair share nd instead, they throw up smoke screens and token concessions at best from union bosses, who convince membership they shouldn’t have to suffer suffer like the rest of us.

  6. Lew I dont know why but some of my post are not posting…They are from local WI news papers regarding Walker giving the Surplus to big businesses and corporations…why I cant post IDK but will try later.

  7. I don’t know either, Jess. But rest assured, I don’t cut any of your comments out when approving them.

    I receive email copies of comments and so far, what shows here is what appears in the emails.

  8. 15% on a household is quit a bit…why should the middle class suffer..I still didnt get an answer on how we should pay for the wars?You and should while the richest of the rich have never been better of…Lord forbid they pay a little more. Seriously.You will keep telling me its the Unions.. all Unions aside we have wars that arnt paid for…Bush invaded a nation that was no threat while lowering just cant do that in a time of war…2 wars.

    The troop money which was voted on didnt even go to our troop it went to privatized armies Blackwater,Halliburton,XE… unconstitutional.War profiting pigs.Cheney and Bush will not travel to certain countries..they will be indited for war crimes.Cheney should be in jail.Bush too for all that goes.

    Unions aside we still have to pay for this…How? why cant the rich go back to the Reagan tax code…it is what Obama asked for and republicans said NO.Lord forbid the pay 4% more while you want people who live paycheck to paycheck to pay 15% more..that is not fair.

  9. Tax rate for the top% under FDR 79%….Right now 35% not to mention all the tax perks the rich have…vacation homes they pay less taxes then you and I on our homes.The tax code is made for the rich.I just bring up FDR because your post earlier.Could you imagine if the top 1% had to pay 79%…we would be out of debt not to mention during that time it is what kept ceo;s in check…not get so greedy.Capital is gone and the wealth has transfered…to the top.It wont change because it seems like people like you will fight for the rich.But if you look up the tax code on presidents you and other conservatives like to quote it is higher then now…a lot HIGHER! ;D

  10. Jess, it is customary that if you re going to claim something as fact that you also back it up with some sort of documentation. It helps.

    You think someone contributing 15% to their health insurance premium is a bankrupter? Before retiring, I paid nearly 70% of the premium and if you check around, the private sector pays much more than 15%. Only 15% is bargain in the real world.

    Since you do not document your claim on where funds for the war effort went, I’ll just ignore that part until you do. Until then, you might consider this:

    I find it quite funny that you wish to drag Bush/Cheney into this for alleged war crimes. Bust, since you did, are you prepared to turn over Bill Clinton so he can begin serving his 20 year sentence for War Crimes?

    There’s no statute of limitation for war crimes, you know.

    I would go along with a tax increase to pay for the war effort, if it was actually going to be fought. I would also be willing to make sacrifices and have as well as do what I can to help and honor my fellow Veterans and active duty Troops. Are you willing to call for more enforcement against Illegal Aliens so we can stop paying for them?

    How is it you still don’t know that the top wage earners pay almost 50% of taxes while the so called bottom pay nothing and actually take money from taxes? Did The Bush Tax Cuts Favor The Wealthy

    Guess Who Really Pays the Taxes?

    You harp on about the war. Just what studying have you done about war? How close have you gotten to one? By what authority do you claim war knowledge on what can and cannot be done? Or, do you just repeat what you were told? The link I gave you above will show you what it is actually costing and that isn’t what is breaking us.

    Nor do I claim the unions are the only problem. Why public unions are exempted from carrying their fair share of the burden still is not explained.

    Public unions members are living paycheck to paycheck? Not hardly. I’ve lived paycheck to paycheck and contributing 15% towards their health insurance premium is not fair. Not fair to the rest of citizens that have to pay much more.

    Even Wisconsin’s outstanding first-year teacher Megan Sampson, who lost her job due to union seniority rules one week after receiving the award, would have gladly paid that.

    You would do yourself well to start actually researching things instead of listening to of OFA.

    Assuming that was you who posted the link on YouTube, I find it laughable since as I showed bove, Politifact has already rated that FALSE after the meme was posted!

  11. Without bringing politics into it, the U.S. budget finally balanced at the end of the Clinton years – it seems likely those were the appropriate rates.

  12. You like FDRs letter to the nation his tax rate for the top% was over 70% while the top tax rate pays 34% currently…the wealth has been transfered alright..Right to the top.The rich have a tax code made for them…vacation homes…they pay less then you and I do..I could go on and on…

    I come from a military family.My father is a retired officer and my father in law was a marine in Vietnam.Im surprised you dont know bout the 9Billion in tax payer money that went missing in Iraq.Congress has been investigating and shocker nothing figured out.

    I could post all day long from local WI news papers regarding Scott Walker and him giving 140million to corporations to put WI in debt.but you all ready have your mind made up.So why keep wasting my time.

    You are the one who is a sound bit from FAUX news you keep telling me to investigate and when I lay the truth out you cling to your garbage and give it a fat kiss.I give a crap bout anything but the truth.You spread the lies and like it..must make you feel better…good for you Lew.

    We are in so mush debt because the Bush tax cuts and the wars..nothing more that is what put us in debt…that is why I care so much we have a debt problem HUGE.Just 2 more years of the Bush tax cuts cost tax payers 856Billion..that is Billion with a B.

    Cheney has bribed lied cheated and he should be in prison..Obama even went to bat for him and Bush…guess Prez stick together.Obama should of let Switzerland have him.

  13. FDRs tax rate for the top% was over 70% right now 34%.You like quiting him so lets go back to that tax code..Debt would be gone.K!The rich have a tax code made for them you and I pay more taxes on our house then they do on vacation homes yachts..ext…I could go on like I said a tax code for the rich is what we have.(btw I wouldnt expect the rich to really pay over 70%)

    I could post all day long local WI new papers that say Scott Walker gave 140million to Big Corps so WI would be in debt and you would keep shotting it down even when I have already proved it to you.Why keep wasting my time.

    My Dad is a retired Officer and my father in law is a Marine vet.So I know plenty bout military families thank you and a strong advocate for our Veterans.

    While we have invaded a nation that posed no threat to us and lost 9Billion in tax payer money in Iraq I care.We are in so much debt from 2 wars not paid for and the Bush tax cuts…Not because the middle class makes to much.

    Did you know after 9/11 happened while all flight grounded Bush got Bin Ladens family out of the USA..hmmm interesting over a dozen of his family got to fly home.NEATO!

    Like I said the WARS and BUSH tax cuts put us in debt.There is no way round it.You blame the middle class and poor…why should they pay more…The rich have never been richer.

    When I post links and press POST Comment it never does…also find it funny you think I LISTEN to moveon and OFA…I get emails but thats bout it..I read newspapers online and lots of foreign news…they have better reading then news corp.But keep painting people with different ideals with your brush..and people like you will keep fighting for Corporate America and war profiting pigs.Unconstitutional to have private armies like Blackwater Halliburton and XE.But let them profit from wars… Unconstitutional.private armies are Unconstitutional.

    Glad you dont call yourself fiscal conservative…since you are all about not paying for tax cuts for corporations and rich and dont like to pay for wars.All real fiscal conservatives jumped boat when they realized what Bush/Cheney was really all about.

  14. Martin, that “balanced budget” was a paperwork sleight of hand. Neither party was being very responsible with spending then.

    The Balanced Budget Myth

    One of our many problems over the years, too many political smoke screens, neither party actually doing for the country and both doing more for party power.

  15. Lew, that link didn’t say anything useful.

    I was simply trying to make the point that (thinking like a CPA – which I am) rather than continually fighting about tax rates (blowing smoke you know where), we have some empirical evidence of good rates that seem valid. If we could just settle on that then HOLD THE LINE, we might be able to move onto other important issues rather than rehashing taxes all the time.

  16. Problem is, Martin, is it fair to punish those who succeed by stripping them of their earnings? They already close to half of all tax dollars collected and are told they don’t “pay a fair share” while nearly half of the country pays no taxes and draws off of tax dollars?

    If we really had a balanced budget and a surplus under Clinton, how is it the debt increased every year? Shouldn’t it have dropped?

    How Clinton managed to claim a surplus was that while the general operating budgets ran deficits but Clinton borrowed from numerous off budget funds to make the on budget fund a surplus.

    For example, in 2000, Clinton claimed a $230B surplus, but Clinton borrowed
    $152.3B from Social Security
    $30.9B from Civil Service Retirement Fund
    $18.5B from Federal Supplementary Medical insurance Trust Fund
    $15.0B from Federal Hospital Insurance Trust Fund
    $9.0B from the Federal Unemployment Trust Fund
    $8.2B from Military Retirement Fund
    $3.8B from Transportation Trust Funds
    $1.8B from Employee Life Insurance & Retirement fund
    $7.0B from others

    Total borrowed from off budget funds $246.5B, meaning that his $230B surplus is actually a $16.5B deficit.
    ($246.5B borrowed – $230B claimed surplus = $16.5B actual deficit).

    Read more:

    Taxes are an important issue, Martin, especially punitive ones. As a CPA, surely you know how businesses that see tax or other expense increases must react to remain in business. Sooner or later, they must either raise prices to compensate or close their doors.

    If they are unable to be profitable, why be in business?

    As for personal wealth, why do we worry so much about what someone else has instead of tending to our own lives? I quit worrying about who has what years ago and found myself more at peace with life. I also see the mega-wealthy contribute a lot of donations to humanitarian causes and charities that otherwise would also close their doors. Not all, I’m sure, but many do.

    Punishing the wealthy for making wealth is like killing the goose that laid the golden egg.

  17. Hmmm…

    I pretty much support “small” business:

    Here’s my call on “big” business:

    Maybe I know what I’m talking about – maybe I don’t?

  18. small businiss pay like 35% federal taxes while big business pays close to nothing B of A 0%…and other million/billion pay .2% .15% that is point not an actual 1%

  19. Sorry for taking so long to get to your comment, Jess, but I’ve been busy, there is life away from the computer, sometimes. 😉 I also wanted to give your comment the time it deserves and not just a quick drive-by.

    While what you say about FDR is essentially correct, do you not know that shortly after WW2, to spur growth given millions of returning Veterans were going to be looking for jobs, Democrats led and effort and passed tax breaks to do it and finally pull us out of the depression? All of the jobs created for the war effort were just a temporary measure that went away once the war ended.

    What Ended the Great Depression?

    Did FDR End the Depression?

    FDR’s policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate

    All of the articles from anywhere that you can muster repeating the falsehood fronted by Rachel Maddow will not change the fact that Politifact, not known for their conservative slant, ran the numbers and showed it was a false claim.

    I’m pleased to hear your Dad and Father-in-law served, but sorry, that has no bearing on you. It gives you knowledge of their views at best. Likewise, neither of my daughters can claim any authority from my own two tours in Viet Nam and over 8 years active duty in the US Army.

    Like everyone else, you are entitled to any opinion you please, but you cannot fall back on others Military Service as any moral authority to state your opinion as fact.

    Funny thing about that “no threat to us” claim. I don’t recall Bush ever saying Iraq was a threat to us. I do recall hearing John Edwards make the claim and recall hearing Bill Clinton link Saddam Hussein to Al Qaeda.

    Bill Clinton Was Right

    The Clinton View of Iraq-al Qaeda Ties

    1999 ABC News Report Video Linking Saddam to Bin Laden
    Iraq: The War That Broke Us – Not

    No one has yet to answer me just how Iraq was a threat during the Clinton years, and once Bush was in office, he no longer was. Give it a shot, if you like.

    Clinton first linked al Qaeda to Saddam

    Bin Ladin and Iraq
    Iraq News, WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 27, 1999

    WMD quotes by Democrats

    On that last one, during the Clinton years, several prominent Democrats claimed the existed. Bush had every reason to believe they were there since all of the intelligence he inherited said they were there. Additionally, Hillary Clinton stated on the intelligence, on the Larry King Show, April 24, 2004, “The lack of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq contradicts years of intelligence indicating Saddam had such weapons, which also was the conclusion of officials in the Clinton administration. The consensus was the same, from the Clinton administration to the Bush administration. It was the same intelligence belief that our allies and friends around the world shared.”

    Likewise, as to your claim of the bin Laden’s be hastily rushed out of the country by Bush, FALSE!

    Bin Laden family were not whisked out by Bush

    911 Myths: Bin Laden family flight

    You must read different online newspapers and foreign sources than I do. Of course, I don’t automatically accept what they say, either.

    Apparently, you do.

    I know you feel pretty good about finding a link claiming companies that pay less tax than we do, but this is something liberals cannot grasp. Companies never pay taxes, consumers do. Their tax is included in the cost of goods or services you purchase from them.

    A simple way to put it, raise their expenses and too deeply into profits and they merely pass it along to consumers.

    In the case of public unions when they negotiate more wage or benefit, politicians just raise taxes and they always fall on the middle class.

    That is why we are asking public unions to “pay their fair share.” It really isn’t about breaking unions, unless the greedy union bosses persist in taking more of our hard earned dollars.

    I refer you back to the 1937 words of FDR, “All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management. The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind the employer in mutual discussions with Government employee organizations. The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives in Congress.”

    Oh yes, on those yachts, ask John ‘F’in Kerry why he contracted a new yacht to be built overseas and moored it out of state to avoid Massachusetts taxes.

    Also, ask your older Democrat friends how their luxury tax on the wealthy worked out for them in the early 1990’s. If they are reluctant to answer, come back and I’ll be happy to show you articles on what a bomb that was for the middle class.

  20. Lew they sure as hell did get lifted right out of the US you are not going to agree with anything…You are to far gone..Get off the and AMericans for prosperity funded by the KOCH brothers..wish we could of came together on issues that matter…But you like that KOCH brother tea..
    Good Luck to you.

  21. And, you wonder why I said you listen to

    Guess the fact that I’m not promoting AFP slipped right over your head too, huh?

    By the way, why worry bout Koch Brothers when George Soros pours money into left-wing groups?

    Is it okay when uber-wealthy fund your side, but uber-wealthy may not fund the other side?

    Is it as suspected for a long time now, the left believe in equality for all, just that they are more equal than others?

    Good luck to you too, Jess. Years from now when you realize how you have been lied to and led around by the nose, I hope you don’t end up too neurotic and disappointed.

    As Winston Churchill said, “Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened.”

  22. LOL you are a funny one Lew…all the real conservatives know the truth I was raised republican like I said we all had to jump ship to bad you want less for the middle class and more for the rich..Keep up the fight for the KOCH brothers you are a true puppet.

    What is even more funny is we all voted for Bush both times…but when we learned the truth well we moved on…you will stick with the same lies and keep going…SAD.

  23. Its on your website under your favs…AFP…Hello

  24. I supply several links for readers to visit. If you note, I also have a link to Jamie Herrera’s web site in D.C. and if you look over the blog, you will find many posts I’ve done in opposition to her.

    Oh, and she’s a Republican, too.

    Imagine that.

  25. Jess, Jess, Jess, what you don’t know about me would fill an encyclopedia.

    I was raised a Democrat and all through Viet Nam was more left-leaning.

    Jimmy Carter opened my eyes.

    I have now distanced myself from both parties and vote and support independently as I see fit.

    Sorry if I don’t fit your little box, but that’s life.

  26. Speaking of “truth”, there’s a new group promoting the bridge project as reported in the Vancouver (cricket…)… newspaper. It seems the group is composed of people who will benefit from the project. Of course, the (cricket…)… didn’t report that part.

  27. And, the number one contributor to this new “local group” is a large engineering firm in New York.

    Preparing to write some on that, probably in the morning.

  28. Did you notice that the (crickets…)… cut out my post chastising Pat Campbell for arrogantly implying that people in opposition to the project have no “common sense”?

  29. I was shocked on you not supporting her I must admit..but then I realized it was just because she voted with the Dems or something along lines. But really Lew I did figure out I was lied to and that is why I am here….Like I could of actually made you see the light..Just wanted to post that last link and saw you commented.I really do wish you Luck.I have a felling I could be back.Dang I am a sucker for trying to get people to see the light..I am sure you feel the same.Take care

  30. Imagine that, Democrats and Republicans, inlcuding Richard Clarke are all wrong, even though Clarke stated he is who gave the authorization for them to leave on September 19, 2001.

    Let’s play a little devil’s advocate, since you on the left all claim to be so “tolerant.” Osama is one of some 50 children born to the family and I’d hate to imagine how many cousins. Even though the family disowned him in 1996, are all of his relatives complicit in what he did to you?

    Remember now, you’re the ones that preach “tolerance.”

  31. also cut out my comment:

    Sounds like Mike missed the “common sense” truck…

    artimus — March 17, 2011 at 9:10 p.m.

    I think the (crickets…)… are blowing fuses.

  32. Why would you be shocked? I’ve said all along I am a conservative, and she’s no conservative.

    If you also look around, I opposed David Hedrick and Jon Russell too.

    Sorry to disappoint you, but I “saw the light” long ago. And, at 62 years old, good luck trying to get me to go back.

    Been there, done that, inhaled the vapors and got away from it all.

  33. Not yet I didn’t. I just stumbled across it a little bit ago.

    Been a busy day.

  34. Sorry to interrupt and be off-topic.

  35. Not really off topic. Taxpayers being screwed over is part of what this one is about too.

  36. Lew you painted me with that Brush so dont just assume on me too. Jimmy Carter was a great president could you imagine if Reagan would of kept his Solar panels on the white house…you and I would surely have panels and a lower bill too…But Im going to go with you didnt like Carter..he was a humanitarian …you dont have to tell me why.Great did you like Carter and I painted you with that Brush..

  37. here’s what the (crickets…)… cut out:

    “Btw Pat, are you saying that people who oppose the bridge project “don’t have any common sense”?

    I think you’re sounding a little “arrogant here.”

    My goodness. I’ll bet Pat whined to the (crickets…)… about it.

  38. Jimmy Carter was “a great president?”


    Sorry, Jess, but that is the funniest thing you’ve said to date.

    Where you even born when he was president?

    Oh, and yes, I supported him too, at first. His first official act as president soured me and it was downhill from there.

  39. Carter was so “great” that he was tossed out after one term.

  40. What I always thought sad for Carter, was hearing him concede the election before the polls even closed out west here. I hadn’t even cast my vote yet when he announced his concession.

    He wasn’t getting my vote again, but others might have and switched their vote as they arrived at the polls.

  41. Actually I learned nothing about Carter in school..not a thing…just what I have read about him.To me he tried hard to get people to conserve and not be wasteful..I like that.

  42. Lew you say the cost of war is not crippling us…that along with the Bush tax cuts is what put us in debt…That is not anything but fact…sorry your righties say it aint is.This is all I want you to understand.

  43. Carter has done nothing but go downhill after he was defeated as well. His stance on the mideast is total lunacy. He definitely needs to stay out of any “limelight”, or at least keep his mouth shut.

  44. He should stick to peanuts.

  45. Jess, what I find remarkable in sites like the one you present, 4 or 5 years ago many were claiming the cost of the war was nearly double what your site says it is now.

    All too often, included in their “estimate” is civilian salaries at the Pentagon, Military Pensions and several areas not directly related to the war.

    I understand people want us to stop fighting the war, seen it all before. Dragging them out like this, to try to fight a “humanitarian war” ends up driving the costs much higher than they should as well as costing more lives.

    I realize you weren’t born yet during Viet Nam (based off your other comment on reading about Carter) and don’t recall how that one was drug out, our hands tied and what happened? We ended up abandoning the country to their fate under communism.

    No body in the right mind likes war, least of all those of us who have fought in them. But, we also realize they are a reality when our way of life is threatened, as we have been for decades now, leading up to September 11, 2001.

    Chronology of Major Terrorist Attacks Against U.S. Targets

    You really want the cost down? Let our Troops take the gloves off and fight as they need to to defeat Jihadists, or at least lessen their number so they aren’t the threat they have been for so long.

    You see, what many anti-war people don’t grasp, even if we stop fighting them, they have vowed to not stop fighting us.

  46. Lefties think that if we all just get together and sing “kumbaya” all of America’s enemies will “just go away”. Lefties can’t see that the world really isn’t a “very nice place”.

  47. Most of them rarely have gotten off of the beaten path when and if they travel, Jack.

    They even think they can domesticate and mingle with the wild beasts with no worries.

  48. Jess, I found a bunch of your comments hiding in my spam basket. I don’t know why they got marked spam and others didn’t. Possibly the links.

    Incidentally, if you are interested in what newspapers from other places have to say, you can access all of the online papers through United States Newspaper List

  49. Jess, can you explain why the Koch Brothers donating to conservative causes causes you so much anguish, but the liberal wealthy donating to liberals causes is acceptable.

    I have yet to figure that out.

  50. Oh okay…(spam)I was typing all this lengthy stuff and then bam gone…so that is what happened.No worries..

    I dont have a problem with money being donated to wherever they feel fit.I do have a problem with the Citizens United ruling that Corporations are now people…for this we are screwed.We can Im sure agree on that.

  51. Don’t forget, those “corporations” would include big labor who funnels tons of money into causes and candidates from your side.

    If you are for keeping them out of it and people like George Soros, I could agree with you.

  52. It’s funny that before the USSC ruling, “some” corporations had free speech while Congress prohibited other corporations from having free speech.

    All the USSC did was say that ALL corporations had free speech and Congress had no right to restrict some corporations from having free speech.

    Nothing more, nothing less.

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