Clark County Conservative

This Flag

28 Comments to “This Flag”

1. 
   http://crankybubbe.blogspot.com/
   July 3, 2015 at 1:38 PM

   Media & lefties whoring, as usual. Has the subject survived the 24 hour media recycle machine? While govt agencies micro-regulate away our freedoms. Khrushchev was right. Our govt agencies operate like Communist govts. Americans as a whole act like The Three Monkeys.

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2. 
   Nathan
   July 4, 2015 at 9:09 AM

   Lefties like Nikki Haley, Lindsey Graham, Tim Scott, Mitch McConnell, Scott Walker, Rick Perry and Rince Preibus. Who knew?

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3. 
   lewwaters
   July 4, 2015 at 9:55 AM

   Yes, a bunch of silly people recreating the very McCarthyism you Liberals condemn from the early 50’s today, but directed at Southern heritage.

   Being silly is being silly, party makes no difference.

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4. 
   Schuyler
   July 4, 2015 at 12:21 PM

   Republicans and Big Business have turned on the flaggers. It’s over. When your heritage is steeped in slavery, treason and ignominius defeat, it can be a rough go.

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5. 
   lewwaters
   July 4, 2015 at 12:33 PM

   And your heritage is steeped deeply in revisionist history and blinders to truth.

   If you weren’t such hypocrites, you’d see your own fallacy of condemning the South while giving slave owners like Ulysses S. Grant and Northern Slave states, like Delaware that maintained slavery throughout the North’s War of Aggression against the South a pass.

   But that doesn’t fit the assigned narrative, so hide that from view and point fingers elsewhere to justify what was done.

   And again, who gives a damn what Republicans do? What part of “INDEPENDENT” is unrecognizable?

   BY the way, I can’t help but notice all of the insensitivity today directed towards British American immigrants. 😉

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6. 
   Schuyler
   July 4, 2015 at 12:57 PM

   Grant may have inherited a slave who he freed. History is not clear. Regardless, Grant fought to end slavery while the South fought to preserve It. Big difference.

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7. 
   lewwaters
   July 4, 2015 at 1:23 PM

   Silly boy, the slaves Grant managed on his wife’s farm were not freed until the end of war.

   And, if Grant fought to end slavery, why was it still legal in the Northern Slave States throughout the war, Delaware even refusing to ratify the 13th amendment until 1901, long after enough of the rest of the states ratified it? If you do not recognize it, the 13th amendment outlawed slavery throughout the South.

   Why did the North disallow Blacks to arm themselves and fight in the Union Army when the South already had armed Blacks fighting on their side? Frederick Douglass noted just that when he appealed to leaders in the North with,

   “Why does the Government reject the Negro? Is he not a man? Can he not wield a sword, fire a gun, march and countermarch, and obey orders like any other? Is there the least reason to believe that a regiment of well-drilled Negroes would deport themselves less soldier-like on the battlefield than the raw troops gathered up generally from the towns and cities of the State of New York?”

   and

   “It is now pretty well established, that there are at the present moment many colored men in the Confederate army doing duty not only as cooks, servants and laborers, but as real soldiers, having muskets on their shoulders, and bullets in their pockets, ready to shoot down loyal troops, and do all that soldiers may to destroy the Federal Government and build up that of the traitors and rebels. There were such soldiers at Manassas, and they are probably there still. There is a Negro in the army as well as in the fence, and our Government is likely to find it out before the war comes to an end.”

   I’ll bring up Lincoln when you attempt to counter 😉

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8. 
   Nathan
   July 4, 2015 at 2:02 PM

   Word comes from the Pensacola News Journal that PGA golfer (and two-time Masters champion) Bubba Watson’s going to repaint the “Dukes of Hazzard” General Lee car in his possession, replacing the Confederate Battle Flag adorning the roof with the United States flag. As Watson said on Twitter: “All men ARE created equal, I believe that so I will be painting the American flag over the roof of the General Lee #USA.”

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9. 
   lewwaters
   July 4, 2015 at 2:35 PM

   So what? His car, his $110,000 he is throwing away by altering it. The car becomes just another Dodge Charger once he does and no longer holds the value he paid for it.

   Don’t know what he will repaint it for the name though, he sure wouldn’t want General Lee on it, now would he?

   But, his money to burn and throw away.

   I can’t help but notice you two are completely avoiding the subject matter as well, the Mexican flag.

   How Liberal of you both 😉

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10. 
    Schuyler
    July 4, 2015 at 3:38 PM

    In evaluating Southern fact and myth, you only need to know one thing. Southerners wanted to be able to own people. If you do not find that despicable on this July 4, then there is little room for further discussion.

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11. 
    lewwaters
    July 4, 2015 at 3:50 PM

    Silly boy, oh but how uneducated you are. Let me guess, public education?

    Here, read and heed Did Black People Own Slaves?

    Ending the Slavery Blame-Game

    No need to thank me, I’m only too glad to help get your mind cleared of Liberal gobbledy gook 😉

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12. 
    Schuyler
    July 4, 2015 at 4:06 PM

    I find The impending Crisis in the South by Hinton Helper, The Cotton Kingdom by Frederick Law Olmstead and Apostles of Disunion by Charles Dew far more enlightening.

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13. 
    lewwaters
    July 4, 2015 at 4:17 PM

    How racist of you to refuse to read the works of Black Historian, Louis Gates Jr., of the now famous beer summit.

    But, I see how you keep yourself deluded

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14. 
    Schuyler
    July 4, 2015 at 4:54 PM

    Looks like it is time for you to head for the dictionary and check out the word “prefer”. I may prefer cola to root beer. That does not mean I refuse to drink root beer. Or is your comment merely an exhibition of the right wing tendency to jump to conclusions based on little or no facts?

    In fact I have read both articles. If black ownership of slaves excites you then I suggest Larry Koger’s book although a little dull with its tables and stats. As for my recommendations, the first two were written before the Civil War, the first by a southerner and the second by the noted Frederick Olmstead. Dew ‘s, book although short, documents slavery as the underpinning of secession.

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15. 
    lewwaters
    July 4, 2015 at 5:42 PM

    And still not addressed by you or anybody else claiming slavery to be prime and main cause of the war, how is it that Northern Slave states remained slave until after the war ended?

    How is it that Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation did not apply to any Northern Slave State or any Slave State under Union control at the time?

    Perhaps that is why that matter is glossed over in history books and not taught in schools because to admit the truth would put to rest the claim of slavery being the prime issue back then.

    No one says it wasn’t an issue, but it was not the major issue because if it were, it would have been ended in Northern Slave states before Ft. Sumter.

    Then too, you have Lincoln’s August 22, 1862 letter to Horace Greeley where he states, “My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery.”

    I guess Lincoln did get the memo that he was waging a war to end slavery?

    Then too, there is also:

    “Most Northerners in 1863 were shocked and surprised by the Emancipation Proclamation because they had not previously been told by their government that the reason they were fighting and dying by the tens of thousands was to emancipate black strangers in faraway states where most Northerners had never been. In July 1863, draft riots occurred in New York City, where between 300 and 1,000 civilians were shot dead (there are no hard data on the number of deaths) by federal troops called in from the recently concluded Battle of Gettysburg

    The Great Centralizer: Abraham Lincoln and the War between the States

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16. 
    Schuyler
    July 4, 2015 at 6:14 PM

    What is a Northern slave state? At the beginning of the Civil War all slave states were south of the Mason-Dixon Line. The Emancipation Proclamation was merely Lincoln’s tool to defeat the Confederacy. Its legal force was questionable. That is the reason for the 13th Amendment.

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17. 
    lewwaters
    July 4, 2015 at 6:49 PM

    Ah, you see, that is where you were taught bilge. Slavery States unaffected by the Emancipation Proclamation

    Many sources I have read state that Lincoln did not free slaves in the Union states because he was afraid of more secession if he did.

    There is also Lincoln’s real intent, a little matter ignored by Republicans today as they embrace him: Did Lincoln Want to Ship Black People Back to Africa?

    I also find many articles and quotation pages on Lincoln completely ignore this point, sanitizing what he had hoped to accomplish.

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18. 
    Schuyler
    July 4, 2015 at 6:54 PM

    Still waiting for your definition of a northern slave state. if you were taught there were northern slave states then you were taught bilge.

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19. 
    lewwaters
    July 4, 2015 at 7:03 PM

    To us Southerners, Schuyler, Northern and Union are synonymous with each other. Are you saying Delaware and Rhode Island are not Northern States?

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20. 
    lewwaters
    July 4, 2015 at 7:08 PM

    Scratch Rhode Island, I misread,

    See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_and_free_states#End_of_slavery

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21. 
    schuyler
    July 4, 2015 at 7:30 PM

    I have been unsuccessful in locating Delaware above the Mason-Mason – Dixon Line.

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22. 
    lewwaters
    July 4, 2015 at 7:42 PM

    Union, Northern, same same to us.

    You can strain gnats all you want and make yourself feel better, but it doesn’t change that slavery remained legal in states under Union control while they claimed they were fighting to end slavery.

    Delaware is hardly what one would consider an bastion of Southern Culture

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23. 
    Nathan
    July 4, 2015 at 7:51 PM

    Interesting comments today. However, after all is said and done the South still has a heritage of slavery, treason and ignominious defeat. The rebel flag, if not on the way out, is substantially diminished and the Mexican flag has nothing to do with any of this.

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24. 
    lewwaters
    July 4, 2015 at 8:04 PM

    Nathan, the whole country has a heritage of slavery.

    There were Black Slave owners, North and South and even at one time in Virginia, late 1600’s or early 1700’s I believe, it was legal for a Black person to own a white person in slavery. It was an Angolan man, Anthony Johnson, credited with being the first slave owner when he went to court in 1654 to have his Black endutered servant, also a Black man, declared his slave for life. It is not as cut and dried an issue as some try to make it.

    George Washington even owned slaves for 56 years, up to his death when they were finally freed.

    It is a blight on our history, but it is still history.

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25. 
    lewwaters
    July 4, 2015 at 8:55 PM

    You always come in to pat yourself on the back?

    Odd how you and Nathan have the same exact IP, isn’t it?

    This may frost your butt some, but Delaware describes themselves as a Northern State.

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26. 
    alisi2
    July 5, 2015 at 8:36 AM

    Actually the Civil War was NOT about slavery, it was about money. Slavery was added later after the war started.
    85% of the money collected by DC was from tariffs paid by 4 or 5 southern states. Since there was no income tax at the time, DC used the tariffs to help industrialized businesses grow in the northern states. Southern states just wanted economic freedom to continue their agricultural lives. Might say it was states rights versus federal rights. Slavery was just a after thought, the slaves owned by northern owners had to wait for the 13th amendment for freedom.

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27. 
    Carolyn Crain
    July 5, 2015 at 9:19 AM

    I disagree with the flying of any flag in a state capitol setting not the current flag of our nation or that state and think Nikki Haley did a good thing. I think it is wrong to burn a flag, any flag. I appreciate the stand made by the people, veterans in Nevada that forced the removal of the Mexican Flag from the front of a public building last year. I appreciate the vets that did the same with the flag of China (I think it was china) from our own state capitol here this year and I appreciate the vets that attended the flag burning on Wednesday in New York to stand and wait for the event to dispel with flag in hand to assure the true honor of this country continued with the raising of our flag to fly high when it was all done.
    This is America, the United States of America. We have a history of being a diverse nation filled with natives and immigrants. We have a history as does all of the world of being imperfect people. We make mistakes.
    We should not remove monuments anywhere as they teach us our history and help us to achieve a higher moral standing.
    We should be okay with the past recognizing its flaws are our forefathers flaws and learn from them.
    We should see the good things that they accomplished and learn from them to protect and advance freedoms.
    Alas we are still imperfect people and therefore we get hung up on crazy things that are momentary glitches not honestly worth the energy we are spending on them. I hope that this blows over now and we refocus our attention on the issues which we need to resolve. Issues such as the protection of freedom and the caring loving nurturing of all life as given by God and declared our country’s purpose in the bill of rights.

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28. 
    lewwaters
    July 5, 2015 at 9:43 AM

    I can agree with removing it from atop of the State Capital, as was done 15 years ago, but think it appropriate to have it at a Monument to Confederate Soldiers.

    There is so much taught about the war that exaggerated and embellished while much is ignored and written off. I have even ran across historians claiming to have found old records from the end of the war that were very obviously altered, mostly pertaining to the role some Black Confederate soldiers had.

    While it never should have been allowed, I have always thought slavery would have died out on it’s own in time, but that we will never know.

    In the end, it is a very complex era of our history and nowhere near as cut & dried as some try to make it today. A few years ago, after reading one of his articles on the Civil War, I emailed Professor Gates to thank him for a well researched article and in reply he agreed with me, we cannot judge the era by today’s standards as it as a vastly different time and attitudes were different.

    In the end, by today’s standards, Lincoln would be just as racist a any slave owner, even though he is credited with freeing the slaves.

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